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I tried Glucosamine supplements years ago, to no avail.
I can't remember?now what it was- but?I think there was?a negative effect -and no positive, so I elected to not use it again.
Good to hear of your progress Keith!
On the royal wedding- nothing against the young couple, but ?12M for security [courtesy:Tax Payers], Well!! Quite right -there are many places this coulld do MUCH good!
I've seen reference to Meds for PsuedoG somewhere- a quick search doesn't show- but I think they were dedicated pain killers -rather than? drug for the metabolic build up that causes it.
It seems to take a slow time receding in many cases.
I just hope it's not actually as painfull as full blown Gout- but I gather it can be. 🙁
I've tried the herbs mentioned and though they didn't make things worse I couldn't detect any improvement.
I was trying other routes at the same time {BP meds plus diet] as well. No one can say they can't work but meds if you?need them badly enough, and can stomach same, are a safer route.
People who report success are not necessarily wrong, it's always hard to gauge till you try and they're not cheap ,either.
On the AlloP uptake- I reckon Docs are wary of kicking off a storm? attack [possible] and don't want the bad press.
Otherwise ,I can't see the difference between a normal attack and an induced one, tbh.
Foolish to start meds?during a big?attack- but flares are not so bad. Many variables, as ever.
Better off the HCT, too!
Good job I like hunting round puzzles, 2cv! Your new figures translate to the same as the old.
If you DO have gout that figure is too high, no longer normal above say 0.300nmol/l by preference [new number results]
Colchicine won't affect your SUA level,, afaik -though if it reduces inflammation I suppose it might alter how urate settles out. Never seen much on that, tbh.?2 a day of these is not enough to change much. try a diagnostiv heavier dose for 2 days with your Docs agreement?
Your diagnosis doesn't seem 100% on the attacks and figures given though. Could just be early days.
If you get a meter to self test you can put off the day when you might need meds- but that day will come should you fail in this or just worsen with age.
Mo- It's going to take a while to shift deposits of urate. You haven't posted any SUA figures- it's hard to guess what might be going on? from this side of the net tbh!
Fact is, a good?lifestyle ,less stress and better diet etc. could actually boost your immune system some- and hence gout flares could be more likely/ persistent for a while. You were only on 100mg AP before- presumably this is now higher. If not, that's probably the answer.
Even with a higher dose, attacks can't be reversed overnight?as a backlog will have built up and recent changes are not going to change much right away.
Whilst you have good blood figures you are OK on trying your Drs approach- better than many get.
Have a complete rest from anything except gentle ambulation till you a grip on the gout.
Type A's are gout prone , I read recently 😉
The only good thing about getting gout young, is that you won't have to learn when you're older- and that's about all!
Early onset must mean that whatever genes you have that don't work right for UA handling are top of the list for some reason.
Can you post any SUA figures ? maybe get a back record from your doc? You must have flagged up early with your medics as you have a clear diagnosis.
Losing weight can exacerbate gout easily. When things have settled down attack wise I would consider urate lowering medication -as there's a long way for you to go, lifewise. My personal view only.
I definitely felt out of it after a couple of weeks on AP. I was taking Beta? and Alpha blockers for BP, now stopped but stopping the AP squared me off to near normal- followed by some attacks ,natch.
meds mixing is not properly researched IMO- and the hit and miss we suffer is a result of a bad paradigm for patient usage results where unknowns are not factored in because they are unlnown. WE know, don't we folks- about Gout as well.
There are some things we know and some things we know we don't know [US politician].
Gout makes one honest- like all true torture.
I?don't know if any legal brains are lurking here,?though!? [Doubtful]?
Jon- with the advice you have an exploration is probably the best way forward. Long term painkillers+constant pain?are not a good way forward.
Knees are far more prone to swelling and 'other' pain triggers, for me -and 'real' gout has stayed below them[ ie:no red inflamed surfaces and more relative swelling for the amount of pain & not so localised.]?Good luck!
Joe- The AlloP with added Colchicine at attacks should do the trick. 2 x 0.6mg is not going to do this though, unless your attacks are really?only twinges!
It's not for?me to advise your treatment?- so check with your Doc about co-admin of meds. I think Advil has a low incidence of side effects conpared to other popular pain killers- this is not true of Colchicine but taken for short time scales, can be worth the risk. Many docs nowadays are wary of?this old med.?and also the cost has rocketed[ for the next 3 years] due to Pharma wrangling with FDA [in the US]
Basic questions- what are your SUA readings, AlloP dose [*could be too low]?and are you really upping your water intake and watching trigger foods/alcohol intake of?ANY amount?
Bear in mind these 'leaving?pains' are to be expected, for maybe some months, with a backlog of urate in your system -but they, hopefully,?should ease off in severity.
[Yes, it's frustrating that this is a repeat of many sufferers experience- due to neglect]
Gary, I don't think the two conditions exclude each other- or arthritis come to that. I had what I think was reactive arthritis due to an insect?bite, in my leg calf,?last year?which was very gout like and occured in my knee- [but I'm quite discerning after many attacks?!?]
Knees do puff up more readily with fluid [for me] and look, sizewise, worse than more painful feet areas.
Gout specialists are very hard to come by- and likely have gout?-or someone close with it, I reckon.
If this? co-condition scenario?doesn't appeal, then remember that dropping your SUA suddenly [and far] can trigger attacks very readily. In my experience these are shorter and less intense -and yours don't match this either.
I suspect you'll have to be patient or maybe [oddly] ease off the AP a bit, say to 200, to see if things stabilise around a less challenging 5mg/dl SUA. You also may be over the worst, already!
Fluid testing from joints?can discriminate between both gouts and could help decide, in the long run.
Sorry to hear the bad news, Keith.
I hope you get good rest and treatment and are back fighting the fight again soon. Trev
Hi there Gary. Good to have?SUA figures. The 14 must have been? error- not hard to do.
What AP ?dose gets you 3.8?? [and for how long]
Have you considered that you may have psuedo gout due to calcium build up. Just as painful as gout but, if you've only?just gone on AP, your figures do seem low and knees are?prone to this by preference.
The big toe is more for gout- in many cases.
Have you tried Colchicine? If it doesn't help it, may not be gout- or something else in addition to it…
Whoever is giving you AlloP- did they diagnose you??
Plus the old,old favourite- what SUA tests have you had -and results.
Hi Forya- your post is not long. With gout, the more info the better [withinn reason]!
Technically, you haven't been officially diagnosed with gout? , but?stalwarts here will recognize?your story, rather too well.
The diurestics are classic gout inducers and, sorry to say, once got -never released, as a potential source of trouble.
The good news here, is whatever happens as a result of urate build-up can be dealt with one way or another.
Meds are the easiest and surefire way of dealing this and even if docs are slow to catch on induced illnesses they certainly go pensive when it hits the fan. Read my lips 😉 …
From this, remember that ALL meds can have unwanted side effects -so my view has always been gently on these and try diet and lifestyle changes first -and then in parallel.
In all honesty- with an SUA of 10 [with gout] meds are top of the list. People have reportedly taken meds for years and then weaning off and some use low doses [like me] to supplement hard learned methods to assist this.
Stopping HCT is a prime move, but can't undo the gout. Swelling due to gout?can go down in a week [or two].
With gout ANY joint is vulnerable and it may be wise to stablise this factor before looking further. Back gout isn't all that common afaik, but I had a Dr with a bad case -which went undiagnosed, too. [Yeah, I know!]
Good luck- I'm sure things can get better for you- gout is bad and can be depressing [NO wonder there]
Frog- when I tried AlloP it was Ok for 2 weeks or so then the non healing sore on finger made me worry but mostly I started to feel quite odd. Tired and spaced out and just not even half normal really. No pains, and UA was responding but I was glad to get off the med- switch to SulfinPyr instead. I was taking a BP med- alpha blocker Doxasozin, at the same time that didn't suit me either- but I kept that one going for some more months before stopping. [BP actually went down sfter ending it!]
My docs haven't been keen as they should have been on blood tests [?] but my latest show some higher, but not alarming, reads for Liver and Kidneys months after stopping both. I still get a left side nag [Kidney]from BP med Losartan which I'm changing now.
Prompts to always do testing here for many reasons are always worth bearing in mind -as we have done.
I have to wonder how much is hidden by people not being encouraged to push for these tests, though they aren't free for many -and always cost the system.
Kindest view is -they don't want needless worry and? that blood levels can shoot about a bit before stabilising at higher, but not? worrying levels, for 'most'. [Famous averaging , again]
Vitamin C is often stated to be bad for gout [ presumably due to it's diuretic effect in high doses].
Two things on this, via the high BP issue, which you may not even have.
Vitamin C is said to decrease inflammation in arterial walls and change the type of protective plaque build up in those with a shortage of?Vit K2. [in pith of grapefruit for one source]
A report I read yesterday discussed Vitamin D shortage in one group of identical twins which had neck artery thickening, compared to their siblings, also leading to higher BP- known to be a gout risk increaser.
However, self medication with long term high dose Vits is not a good idea without monitoring [esp Vit D]?-but there's a lot of hype about Vits being bad etc- and very little real awareness of? many meds serious side effects, as they are under reported.
On Vit C, high doses are not so bad- but can? make the body lazy at extracting it from food sources eventually, so a slow tail off would seem best -with increased uptake from natural sources.
I strongly suspect that high SUA contributes to High BP also, via arterial inflammation.
One hell of a complex loop, anyway!
You could get to try Colchicine- that helping would point to gout. It has rocketed in price in the USA, though.
Don't bother about age- people in their 20's post here. GouI's not understood well by medics- but the illness is increasing year by year, no surprise really with modern diets, stress & other health challenges.
It's readily treatable- not? like the plauge, another, still existing, medieval illness.
Your SUA will be depressed during repeated attacks- your medics should know this, but often they don't.
SUA @ 6.7 average can be gout, right enough!
You need better care- it gets depressing dealing with both the pain and incompetence.
[Don't tell them this- it may depress them 😉 ]
Take help from here- we're older, but we do know about this cruel? and painful illness!
Don't get me wrong Cas- I'm for natural methods if possible, but I got the gist that you'd decided for AlloP anyway and that [or equivalent]?is often the best way eventually.
You haven't posted any SUA figures so it's hard to gauge where you are on the scale of things. If you're prepared to really get stuck in and monitor SUA below 6mg/dl and watch diet and beer, seafoods etc it's possible to do without Urate lowering meds but not easy. Losartan and Lasix did help me [BP meds] but are long term too, and nothing like as effective as AP or my current med, Sulfinpyrazone.
Probably if you do try and get along with AP you won't go back- but it depends on your history of attacks, age etc and how things might progress from now.
Really, it's up to you and your med advisor to measure up options- but whichever route you take, you can't chop and change.
Swings in SUA are what destabilizes your system- and permanently high SUA has only one result in confirmed gouties.
Q:In view of the increasing popularity of botanical supplements, such studies and investigations in
vitro, in vivo and in clinical trials need to be developedAs Elderberry is incapable of patenting- I'm not holding my breath! However, it does show that traditional remedies are valid- if research can be done.
I think people who privately pursue this path deserve success, in any situation.
The less attention/success accorded by the Pharma Co's to healthy alternatives?-the more people are driven to find more natural treatments. In some cases meds are all that will do the trick.
Cas- Look under 7 top right this page for UA meter.
You can't stop &?start UA lowering meds without proper monitoring, though once on steady low SUA?levels and the right lifestyle a 'holiday' could be risked -if you monitor SUA frequently. You won't be able to?do this on the wrong diet?or with?other risk factors for long, IMO.
My guess is this would lead to forgetting the pain of an attack and it's too late when UA rises and is further salted away in tissues. The hidden damage goes on even whenyou feel OK in the joints.
One thing at a time is the best way -and read up more here. There's no 'cure' for gout, only good management and meds under correct usage for your SUA?condition, that's what you need to establish.
OK Zip- we're moving forward?What if the human body recognizes this UA as a 'potential' antioxidant and hasn't learned that it can't process/excrete the stuff well?
Wouldn't the?first, if misled,?thing to do be to salt it away -and in gouties this gets done, just too damn?well.
I believe Vitamin C [an acid] helps reduce arterial deposition of 'bad' chlorestrol when inflammation is occuring in the arterial wallls-?thus stopping the?resulting higher BP?which?leads to a?higher risk of?Gout?.
This arterial inflammation has been itself proposed as a link between High BP and gout where?high?SUA is involved in both conditions.
[Sorry, haven't got the link- but I printed it out for my Dr. a while back]
Great data [though not what you went through]- Interesting how the old dietary?standbys show effectiveness, though earlier similar?drops are unaccounted for.
A pity you didn't try??the famous Black Bean Broth for comparison- though it doesn't help?in all cases?!
Also, the lower?flat line during an that long attack is typical -and shows how the body manages the attack. Note how it takes two weeks to almost halve SUA before a rebound after urate has been?salted away…
Proof that, whatever else happens SUA must be lowered to less than the dreaded threshold, come what may!
Here's hoping you don't get flares at the lower SUA?level after all that?
Hans, if you look at the topic heading it's a question- Why do we need UA? If you don't like the topic just avoid it in the interest of free discourse.
It seems to be necessary for some reason otherwise we would excrete it straight away. If it is indeed an antioxidant this explains?some use for it.
Not difficult…and if there's a down side, understanding where it truly fits in could indicate how it could be better managed.
It could even play a part in mood enhancement/ reduction [ongoing research] 😉
I'm really glad things have improved Gerry- that old shot looks a doozy, as Zip would say.
When those little miniture tophi like surface specks on your 'free' toes go- you will know you are ahead.
I saw them in my?attacks but they have now gone on me , now things are? a steady <5 SUA.
If you can find ways to reduce or eliminate meds for high SUA then that is a sensible thing to do. It does happen.
Those who can take treatments with impunity are lucky and even take the? benefit for granted, understandably.
ALL meds? have to be treated with caution ,if not respect. They are by nature designed to alter your bodily response from what IT prefers, however distorted a path that may be. Gout is certainly a bodily re-direction.
On the use of natural cures, many swear by them and even if some of these are due to placebo effect- so what?
[though I very much doubt placebo effect works? in gout – ever!]
There's no doubt whatsoever that some medicines can have very unwelcome results ? that's why Drs are highly paid/stressed!
Traditional medicine was based on years of trial and error- so are modern ones?
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC349151/pdf/pnas00662-0320.pdf
Unless they are charlatans in this 20 year old report- it shows that acedemia does support UA as an antioxidant.
It seems that the actual pH at the time is not critical in that :
?”Urate is an effective antioxidant at alkaline and neutral pH (52) and in acid”
This report is not studying physiological attributes,as is stated, but?indicates both the character of UA and where it may ?apply in a positive way to the body.
For those here who like to learn about UA in any way, good or ill,?it's important that opinions are allowed freely.
Nothing to be gained fromm ignoring reality, in my book!
Hard to see why UA existing naturally in everyone should be a poison- or equally why medicating against its bad effects does not?need equal care in use -and effort to understand its use for the best end result.
Recent reports on the long term effects of meds as being not so secure in their harmlessness remind me that fashions come and go -depending on current thinking and who knows what can be thrown up in the future.
We've touched on this and Keith discussed it? a while ago. Knowing the benefits of SUA wouldn't necessariry help in gout cures but at least can justify its existence!
I understood UA to be an anti oxidant and helpful in immune response [ in this? 'good' mode']-
Pehaps in earlier times [like 100,ooo's years] we needed to survive many assaults on our systems from bog water, bites, bad food keeping etc. esp in hotter climates times/changes to.? Maybe it got driven up by default?
I think people with gout are unlikely to get MS and possibly Parkinsons [or similar CNS illness] This seems worth some reseach- but whatever happens,NO ONE is going to vote for it by preference, that's for sure!
