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Apologies JP, I didn't pick up your query. I hope that your toe has improved by now. I am not the best person to ask as my big toe is very similar at the moment and all I can do is take 3/4 colchicine a day and my Voltaren Rapid once or twice a day and over the course of about 7/10 days the swelling goes down and movement returns. I can't say that the medication makes me feel well and I experience headaches but it is less than the foot aches.
One little bit of reassurance is that the longer you have Gout the less pain you experience, or in my case. Or maybe the pain tolerance increases. It still is an outstanding pain and I saw it quoted in a medical book as an “exquisite” pain (of consummate excellence or beauty). Obviously not a written by a Gout sufferer but a medical practitioner.
I hope things have improved for you and that the above notes are of value. You are not alone.
David
Peter
I was told by both the rheumatologist and GP that the tophus would dissolve by the use of Allopurinol. My Tophus like yours has increased in size during the treatment.
On my recent visit to a Podiatrist he reckoned that it was going to be a feature of my toe for life and I should be considering having shoes modified specially for the outcrop.
I understand that any operations on the fingers or toes can stand a good risk of infection and more chronic future arthritis and my GP is considering this as a very last course of action.
Great that you can take the Allo. You have won the lottery.
David
Hi Juliana
I thought it was the Allopurinol that your husband had trouble with?
The Colchinine if taken in an attack will bring on severe diarrhea (can be quite scary) over about 12 hours, was this the reaction your H received. This is normal and rapidly clears the intestines. Refer Posts on my POST Your Gout – Gout for 36 years and elsewhere about Colchinine.
Only in the past couple of weeks have I isolated that walking and cycling after a period of inactivity with Gout , brings on the Gout flare or attack. I am reading this that I have reduced my UA to a satisfactory level and the activity frees up crystals from my joints allowing them into my blood stream, where they are attacked by the bodies immune system bringing on a flare or attack. I just take the Voltaren and get moving again as soon as possible.
Question : It is always advised by Doctors to start taking Allopurinol when you have been clear of Gout for 7/10 days. Why?
From my personal observation the long term sufferer, taking Allo for the first time is going to bring on an attack anyway so why not just get on it, as it is supposed to be the one of the only drugs to be able to reduce your UA. You may get a doozy of an attack, but after a few months the attacks do reduce in intensity. A question for your Doctor!!!!!
But start the dosage low as I earlier suggested and gradually step it up over months. Prolongs the agony but if I took the full 300mg immediately, I would have had to cease all activities and I was very unwell.
You appear to be doing most things well, it is only that your H condition has developed over many years and the cure will be slow.
Stick with it is not going to be a fun ride, but there are others who are going through the same thing.If that is any comfort.
Later:- Re the comment about Purine rich foods, can't advise on that but I have found that all things in moderation have been OK. I also located a table on the old Gout Pal Site grading foods as Alkaline and Purine rich, but young Keith has been busy and it has been relocated to cyberspace.
From this table I was surprised that most of the meats- fish , poultry, beef etc had ratings that were in the same area, so it would appear that eating less meat and more fish was not of a great benefit. Maybe Keith will pop up and guide you to these tables.
But in reverse I have found that the more alkaline foods, celery, lettuce (Cos lettuce), carrots, beetroot have a real beneficial effect and are used in a daily glass of juice.
Keith
You got it correct on all counts.
I've taken it on as my role to constantly challenge you and make you think outside the square or the toilet seat.
Only by doing this will you discover the magic bullet of a Gout cure. Remember the UA discharge through the Gastro tract pick up.
Mine is a tough job, constantly thinking up new questions and finding things out of left field to challenge you.
You have twigged to the message and risen to the occasion. You too have a quirky sense of humour.
The actual story is true and has been in our papers on a regular basis for a couple of months, we are so divorced from the rest of the world that these little personal demonstrations are major news whilst the rest of the world falls to pieces, we climb trees.
Gee Zip, you were the Poster I was thinking about. You seem such an advocate for Allopurinol, but I kept reading about your paper clip trick on your tophi.
So basically with me attempting the Allo treatment and coping with the side effects , I am effectively knocking my head against a brick wall in hoping to get rid of my sore toe!!!
I cope with the few Gout attacks I normally have, quickly and effectively and since I have modified my juicing regime I have reduced my UA level from .47mmo/l to .33mmo/l .
So the end answer is that by remaining on the allo treatment I cannot expect in the forseeable future to have happy toes.
Requires a rethink and discussion with my GP. Out with the bolt cutters, trouble is when I pass out and am taken to hospital, the silly b…..s will possibly reattach the gouty toe at great expense.!!!!!!!!!!
Bit of a bummer.
Sorry Zip I have to personally disagree with you on the comment about “no side effects”
As I have stated before.
“My main purpose in continuing the treatment, albeit at the low dose of 150mg / per day and still function, is to reduce the toe tophi , I can well cope with the few attacks a year that I normally suffer. The effects I experience on 300mg of Allopurinol are life changing and I pretty much cease to function. Movement outside of the house is not really an option as I can't drive or walk, converse or think sensibly due to the side effects.
If you are able to take Allopurinol and be gout free, you have won the lottery”
For me it is a very cruel drug!
Even kicking up from 150 to 200mg a couple of weeks ago has brought back all the negative side effects and I am back here on Site, waffling to fill in the time as my movements are again restricted, particularly by the overwhelming tiredness, head aches and wanting to sleep all the time.
For me, Allopurinol is not the magic bullet. If it were the cure all, why are so many people on this Site looking for cures , advice and expressing general fear of the drug.
In the 70's / 80's there was doubt about Zyloprim (Allopurinol) and its effect on the kidneys, amongst the GP's. There was a reluctance to prescribe it . Maybe the word hadn't filtered down here or maybe we were ahead of the pack.
My medical treatments , based on the GP's advice over the years started with Zyloprim, then in the 80's I think it was ORUDIS , followed by the Voltaren/Colgout and now I am back to the Allopurinol/Colgout/Voltaren combination.
The Orudis was a bit nasty but the Allopurinol is the the cruelest drug of them all as the side effects never seem to end.
Sorry Keith , I guess it was a bit cryptic, I thought I had been a bit verbal on the Site and cut down on words.
The article actually states that there appears to be no evidence of long term side effects.
As to the Rheumatologist, I doubted her knowledge and won't be going back, but there has been some underlying concern by the Doctors going way back about Allopurinol and kidneys. Maybe as the drug has been around for 40/50 years, these fears have been displaced. As stated above my current Doctor was not aware of any problems, likewise he wasn't aware of the reason you have Gout flares on Allopurinol and a few other things, like why you prescribe Colgout. It is just the recommended treatment. That still leaves us up in the air.
The trouble is I have been dealing with Gout too long and you pick up a lot and lack of information along the way . Things do change over the years and I guess there is now confidence in the drug, whereas in the 1970's there was doubt.
Re Gouty Gal's comments.
I totally agree with Gouty Gal, that Voltaren is not a pleasant drug. My useage is only minmal compared to 150mg per day. It would destroy my gastro tract at that rate.
I basically use it to sneak in and hit the attack early, get rapid reduction of the pain and swelling and cease the treatment within 2/3 days, so that my exposure is very restricted.
(Sounds a bit like entering a nuclear reactor only for a short time to limit the exposure)
I have had occasions when I have been on it for weeks (last year combined with my current attempt at the Allopurinol treatment) but I haven't used it for 6 + weeks.
It never really takes away the total pain but it gets it to a level that I can ignore it and I can continue functioning.
What works for one doesn't always work for another.
The steroidal drugs had a heavy impact on me and it would be foolish to totally discount Voltaren, it may be that the long term pain sufferers are reacting adversely to the various Anti Inflammatory drugs prescribed . In Australia Voltaren is a prescription only drug and would be worth discussing with your practitioner and trialling it for the short term relief of the symptoms – reduce the pain and swelling.
Maybe, I have just been fortunate in finding something that only works for me.
Unless you are commencing the Allopurinol treatment for the first time, there should be no need to have months of pain.
It was a she.
Utubelite said:-
If the above readings are not considered normal, I was born with high BP then…
XXXXXXXXXXXX
I feel that I have been blessed with high BP all my life – stress, anxiety. It wasn't until I was about 27, when I started to have my BP checked and high BP noted.
Up until about 7 years ago the upper level before the Doctor's got excited was 140/90 then about 2002 it was suddenly agreed that the desired level was to be 120/80.
I suspect the the Drug Companies had come up with some research and could see a marketing angle.
As we all know very well, each persons body is different, so why can't our BPs be different. Personally the meds make me extremely unwell, stress me out and increase my BP.
An observation about this POST – have you noted the connection :-
Gout, BP, stress, anxiety?
It is common to a lot of POSTERS, so that this discussion on a GOUT site is very relevant.
More good info, note the preparation before self measuring your BP, how often is that undertaken in the surgery and generally only one test is made, which is high. My BP can drop 20/30 points between the first and second tests in about 5/10 minutes.
http://www.heartfoundation.org.au/
[Search for blood pressure self measurement – old link has moved]
Gee I'd love to have the BP's recorded above. I have a record that in 1973 my BP was 180/84.
It mainly stresses the Doctors out. My wife's view is that it hasn't killed me yet, so don't worry about it. I haven't got any insurance to collect, so that's not a reason, she encourages me not to worry about it. I'm 6'1″ and about 86 kgs. Non smoker and light drinker, very diet conscious.
I have had so many bad experiences with Doctors over 30 years that they really do terrify me. Just for kicks ,try having a colonoscopy without being sedated. You end up like a truck tyre ready to burst. The staff stuffed up and didn't sedate me so as his time was running short he carried on regardless with a sister holding me down on the table and another holding my hand which I crushed. I have many such tales. We're a tough breed.
As to the ambulatory BP test, I found it a waste of time as you have to stop what you are doing every time it starts and as it is set to a regular test time-30mins. Your body soon picks up on this and you tense up waiting for the machine to start just prior to the machine kicking in.
I have attempted 4 types of tablets with no improvement and many side effects. The last Prazosin was the worst. I had to reduce from 200mg a day within a day and a half as I was verging on passing out and other nasties, contacted the Doc and reduced to .25 mg per day and by the end of 5 days, I was almost on the way out, grey in colour, couldn't eat and quite ill on .25mg a day.
The Resperate and bike riding have greatly reduced my BP. Worth a real try. Results within a couple of months.
Keith I am so pleased that I start off the New Year with another question for you to ponder. It will be a good year.
The source was a Doctor, 30 years ago and a Specialist 6 months ago and we all know they are experts.Yet my current Doctor was not aware of any problems. The specialist just came out with it as I asked the question.
Maybe it it a Southern Hemisphere thing.
I’ll go and hide in my cave again.I’ll have a search to see if I come up with anything.
Just noted I’ve cracked the 50 posts, do I turn into a pumpkin or something now.
cjeezy said:
I'm kinda just discouraged right now but I just wanted to know if any of those on BP medicine could offer some advioce on what to take and not what to take. Appreciate any comments
The BP reading could be due to “White Coat Syndrome”, very common.
Check out a product ( natural) RESPERATE :-
resperate.com/us/welcome/index.aspx
Works extremely well for me and I find it a pleasure to lie down and go through the exercise each day for about 25/30 minutes. It's like meditation,hypnosis, yoga all in one.
Even though I had pretty severe respiratory troubles last year I was able to use the exercise, whilst ill and it increased my lung capacity and worked my heart out whilst not able to do physical exercise. I am positive that it had a great deal to do with my recovery and dropped my BP dramatically, like 74 points.
210/100 in the surgery( freaks the doctors out) now since Sept 2009, 136/68 at home.
When you do the exercise you seek to drop your breathing rate to below 10 breaths a minute. I achieve regularly down to 3/4 breaths a minute and have been down to 1.9.
The problem is managing to stay aware of the machine and not drop off into a relaxed sleep or deep meditation mode.
I understand that Hypertension and Gout are inter related.
6 months ago I asked the Rheumatologist the side effects of the two drugs prescribed, when used over the long term.
Colchicine – weakens the heart muscles
Allopurinol – attacks the kidneys.
This latter observation was also advised to me by a Doctor who discouraged me from using it as a long term remedy, many years ago. It was on the basis that I only suffered the attacks a few times a year and if it was him he wouldn't be taking the drug long term.
Hi Zip
As previously stated I have never found Colchicine to be a pain killer apart from the first time when I took them every hour and following many long hours alone in the little room , I achieved relief from pain , but only for a few hours and it kicked right back in. I was too frightened of the Colchicine to take it again for many years.
The only drug that has helped with the pain is the Voltaren, which if you can commence taking it on the first twinge, will sometimes kill the attack at the outset-1 day. It can reduce the swelling and pain levels in most cases; in a bad attack within 1/2 days and I cease taking them.In an attack, I also, do take the Colgout at the rate of 3/4 a day for 2 days which cleans out the system. This is why I have always considered Colchinine (Colgout) an extreme laxative. But I get pain/swelling relief from the Voltaren, in most cases on the first tablet.
I rarely have need for the pain killers in addition to the Voltaren and Colgout.
The Voltaren also reduces the swelling rapidly.
The Votaren was prescribed to me by a rare breed , a doctor who was a fellow sufferer.
It makes me wonder if sufferers are relying on the Colgout for pain relief which seems to be extended , in my case, when Votaren does the job, usually on the first night.
I read on these pages about the ongoing pain of gout. Yes!! I experience the real gouty scream your head off pain but I hit it as soon as I get the twinges with Voltaren Rapid 50 ? anti inflamatory. In a bad attack maybe 3 per day, but generally I take one with the evening meal and that lasts 24 hours. It maintains the pain at acceptable levels. I generally only take them for a few days.
It must affect the attack as within days my feet return to normal and the pain ceases. Only in an extreme attack do I have severe pain more that 2/3 days. Thinks – that is a while to be in severe pain???
Maybe I have just got used to it. They say if you beat your head against a brick wall long enough you start to enjoy it.
Before I was prescribed Voltaren I did have a foot nearly half again in size for around 3 months. I stilll can fondly remember the attack it was over the Gulf War period and all that was on TV in the dawn shift was Gulf War re runs.
Later !! I did have a point to make, “why aren’t anti imflamatories being prescribed as part of the treatment”. Pain killers and the forte versions don’t help me a great deal.
Hi Dan
I sit on the other side of the fence and suffer from bad side effects from the medication.
I have been using celery for years for Gout prevention and I am sure that it has been instrumental in keeping my levels down. I have a POST on these pages under:-
Gout Cures- Juicing to keep your uric acid under control.
I am as certain as you can be that the juicing (including the celery) has reduced my UA levels. It also has other health benefits as a bonus.It is just a little work each day; but popping a pill is far easier, if you can tolerate them. As you will gather from these pages you are all amongst the fortunate persons in being able to tolerate Allopurinol.
Celery is recognised for relief of Arthritis (Gouty Arthritis) and a combination of celery and carrot assist removal of toxins from the body.
Unfortunately what works for one may not work for another. The natural way is always longer in the cure as the “ingredient” is not as concentrated as the medicinal version.
You have to have faith in the natural cure, whereas with drugs if it doesn't work, you go back and get another one or a higher doseage.
People who have a low drug tolerance have difficulty in taking take prescribed drugs , short term let alone for a lifetime.
It must also be remembered that most modern drugs are derivatives or combinations of ingredients copied from nature.
Due to other problems I can seldom take prescribed drugs and have proved the medical professionals wrong in surviving several death sentences by changing my lifestyle, diet and basically sensibly adopting a more natural approach to my treatment.
This is basically trial and error plus a fair bit of research with minimal support from the medical fraternity as if you can't take the drugs, they simply have no other answers.
If the lady mentioned finds that celery is working for her, it probably is!!
There is no definitive Gout cure and we must leave the door open to all suggestions.
David
My initial brush with Colchicine was the same as Zip's, one every hour and no cut off point mentioned with a very dramatic result after about 16 tablets. The response was so bad that it frightened me from using it again for many years.
I now take it with attacks at the rate of 3/4 per day and by the second day it usually kicks in. Even at this rate and 7 tablets I had diarrhea for 12 hours a few weeks ago.
You will have little time to be on the Computer when it does hit.
Good Luck.
Thanks chaps for the positive comments. I thought I may have gone a little over the top but I was attempting to set up something for the newly recruited Gouty people and possibly those that had been unable to satisfy their need for an instant cure. People need reassurance when hit with something like our problem. It needs to be kept in balance- the knowledge, seeking of knowledge and the UA levels.
I come from a generation of Australians (WW2-war baby) where we had little support and we found solutions to our own problems and in the process helped others.
When you look at the POSTS on “Your Gout” the number of hits against the two older persons contributions- Richard's and Mine, it would appear that there is still some value in the older persons knowledge, even if it is about Gout.
I think I have done my dash for the time being with my last three POSTS, so I'll go back to the cave again and just observe. It's too hot to hibernate- 40'c today. Dropped a part of the vacuum cleaner on my afflicted pinkie yesterday- it was not pleasant – I'd forgotten what real pain is like. I remember that I read in a medical journal that the Gout pain is considered “exquisite” ( intense; acute, or keen, as pleasure or pain.). Food for thought!!
Kind regards
David
Reading a couple of Nate's Posts, it would be a fair assumption that joint damage from accident or abuse would be a major contributing factor in allowing the crystals to find a home. I have made the same personal observation, where I am attacked in joints I have damaged.
My little toe which is currently around 30/50% larger than normal with the tophi, but when the imflamation and the lump reduce ,I am left with a toe with a joint that moves around a lot so that I can't walk in bare feet as the toe won't go where it is supposed too,this is no doubt due to a build up and UA damage to the joint over many years. So in some ways it is more comfortable swollen and in other ways it just hurts.
Give the Epsom Salts bath a go for your foot, it certainly helps me. Repeat it as necessary.
Hang in there.
Just picked up on this POST and it supports my use of Epsom salts in a foot bath which gives me relief and reduces the inflammation.
Bartman, Poor old GP, now he is dealing with two odd bods from the lands down under. The other Northern Hemisphere bods, will be doing on going Wikipedia searches for word meanings.
Have a look at my Epsom Salts bath trick under Cures, posted today. I don't intend to attempt the needle trick, I'll leave that to you.
GP. Just keeping you on your toes and introducing you to proper” English”.
Who wouldn't know that chooks were chooks.
Our version of chooks go around saying chook, chook,chook all day, what do English chickens say?Oh , I see the problem, your spellcheck won't accept chooks.
Give the juice a go, it really is quite a nice brew and it becomes your special time of the day.
This POST has really gone off the rails or should that be bails? Cricket – Isn't it winter in the UK? Summer here with cricket in full swing, actually it never seems to stop. (37'C today and 40'C tomorrow, I'm spending a few hours tomorrow slaving over a hot BBQ cooking sausages for a sausage sizzle- kid's Xmas tree, overlooking 180' of beautiful Indian ocean. Life is tough. Breeze forecast to come in around noon.
Back on the subject. Both Vegemite and Marmite, from their Sites are claimed to be Vegetarian and there is no mention of Iron content for either.
PS Vegemite is OK on the spellcheck, but Marmite does not compute.
Everything in moderation, gentlemen.
Howzat!!!!!
I don't know I have to do all the work ain't yoose lot edjicated – furphy . Came about when we were helping out in WW1.
Now GP is picking on Rolf Harris, now he is another Western Australian, and is always welcome back here. He was an acquaintance of my Mum's family in his childhood days. The Queen likes him, anyway, let him paint her portrait.
Does Marmite look good if you put it on your lips?
Sorry pault we have hijacked this Post but maybe now you can eat your Vegemite with a clear conscience and we have increased the sales of both Marmite and Vegemite plus Rolf Harris merchandise. (Tie me Kangaroo down, sport.)
Enjoy.
Hey odo!!!!!
You are picking on one of our National icons, (we are are only a relatively new country- small things mean a lot) even though I think it is US owned now- Kraft.Personally as much as I enjoy the odd taste I have to limit my intake but mainly for the yeast content and only recently I have seen , possibly on these pages , that it should be avoided for Gout sufferers.
As an aside it is reportedly high in many of the Vit B group and at times my body craves it, usually when the nervous system is in the low range- it helps when I eat large amounts for a short time.
It is also good for mouth sores or irritations, gum soreness, sore lips and clears up the condition rapidly when applied like ointment. Just imagine ,a person with liberal amounts of Vegemite layered on and around his lips suggesting to his wife “wanna kiss”. It can be a real turn off or if you both enjoy vegemite a turn on. Didn't work as the latter for me.
Can Marmite do all these things?
Just grabbed a bottle and put on two pairs of glasses (the print is so small) the ingredients seem to be mainly the B group of vitamins and yeast. No mention of Iron content. Maybe I am missing something. Checked the Vegemite Site and couldn’t come up with anything.
Maybe a furphy spread by that Marmite mob.
Keith
I'm afraid that it appears that others including me, are afflicted, with the same need to express themselves. You have set a virus at large with this Site. Is there a cure??
Later: I just had a thought that if a cure is found for Gout, life as we know it will cease to exist and give us nothing to communicate. A bit sad.
Valid comments re the observations of the Doctors.
@Utubeelite
Thanks for the lead I must follow up re the email advice. It proved out to me about 3 months ago when I had a check for my DHEA levels and found them to be greatly deficient,I receive the tests within days by post. I couldn't see the GP for a couple of weeks but was able to phone in and get a scrip for the DHEA supplement and get started on the rebuilding immediately.
On two other occasions I couldn't see a specialist for months following some adverse results, Had a second test taken on both occasions and found out that I was well within normal ranges – but I stressed out for months without access to the test results. By having them in hand it puts you back in control.
David
Check out some comments / observations, re Colchicine on the Post “Gout for 36 years etc (Your Gout) 30/11/2009.
You are not alone.
David
Up @ 3am with Gout problems , wind and reflux from the Colgout.
Just checking the Site in case a miracle cure has been discovered this weekend.
As mentioned elsewhere last week I am attempting to lift my intake of Allopurinol to 300mg but I am stuck at 150mg, due to recurring nasty gout attacks and strong side effects that increase with the dosage.
Why do so many people avoid the taking of Allopurinol ?
There would appear to be fear and doubt about the drug, which has been around since the 1920's I believe.
Are my reactions, which are similar to @Utebelite and @funandsmile, so common?
I do have the added effect of the continuous gout attacks/flares, whilst on the drug.
Possibly it is suitable for new “Members of the Brotherhood of the Gout” and not really suited to dealing with long term complaints with a build up of old crystals.
It certainly is not a user friendly drug for me .
David
